General Discussion:

Climbing Rose Frustration!


Messages posted to thread:

From:Date:Zone:
Venus25-May-04 08:37 AM EST 3a   
Chris25-May-04 09:44 AM EST 5a   
Venus25-May-04 09:51 AM EST 3a   
G Keats25-May-04 12:47 PM EST 5a   
Venus25-May-04 01:51 PM EST 3a   
dian davies25-May-04 02:08 PM EST 3b   
Carol26-May-04 03:56 AM EST 5a   
Venus26-May-04 10:44 AM EST 3a   
Carol27-May-04 03:28 AM EST 5a   
kathaleen01-Jun-04 08:54 PM EST 3   
Patricia03-Jun-04 07:18 PM EST 5   
carol abbott25-Aug-04 12:34 AM EST 5   
Donna26-Aug-04 12:24 PM EST 5b   
ramblin' rose26-Aug-04 11:39 PM EST 8a   
JoanneS07-Sep-04 09:45 AM EST 3a   
GailE.08-Sep-04 10:01 PM EST 3a   
gwen22-Sep-04 05:51 PM EST   
PatA23-Sep-04 06:49 PM EST 3   
Donna03-Oct-04 01:55 PM EST 3a   
Alison13-Feb-05 11:59 AM EST 5b   
Janine14-Feb-05 12:48 PM EST 2b   
ramblin'rose15-Feb-05 03:02 PM EST   
Janine17-Feb-05 07:29 PM EST 2b   
mary13-Mar-05 11:28 AM EST 5a   
mary13-Mar-05 11:28 AM EST 5a   
Michael26-Jun-05 03:31 AM EST 4   
Patricia 26-Jun-05 01:27 PM EST 5   
Grace28-Jun-05 11:33 AM EST 3   
Lyn29-Jun-05 05:59 PM EST 3a   
Chris06-Jul-05 08:21 AM EST 5a   
Kristie19-Mar-08 07:51 PM EST 9   
Kath20-Mar-08 12:57 PM EST 3a   


Subject: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Venus
Zone: 3a
Date: 25-May-04 08:37 AM EST

Hi everyone! I planted two John Cabot climbing roses last year on either side of an arbor which grew almost 4 feet tall. They were both healthy and well taken care of. They are not in "full" sun but filtered sun for most of the day. Either rose bloomed last year and both died back pretty much to the ground this spring. They had some mulch and good snow cover but I did not go through major measures in the fall as I continue to be told that “winterizing” is not necessary with hardy roses.

My question are:

1) is it common for a rose not to bloom the first year? Could there be something wrong with the plants (both of them)? Is part sun okay or must Cabot be in full sun?

2) Is it possible for a hardy climber to have long canes survive the winter without taking the canes down and lying them on the ground? I would prefer to not do this every year and I honesty don’t know how I'd bend the canes back without them breaking or splitting.

All of my other hardy roses have done wonderful with little die back and many blooms so I am frustrated by this climber. Any input or advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Chris
Zone: 5a
Date: 25-May-04 09:44 AM EST

I have had John Cabot, Henry Kelsey, John Davis in my garden for several years, all doing well with canes which survived winter unprotected, but this winter they were all pretty much killed to the ground. Just a bad winter - everyone seems to have dead or damaged roses this spring.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Venus
Zone: 3a
Date: 25-May-04 09:51 AM EST

Hi Chris, if you had severe die back in zone 5 then what hope do I have in zone 3? HA!

The irony is that I have a dozen other hardy roses that did just fine with minimal die back although they are established whereas my Cabots have only gone through one winter.

Maybe it is unrealistic to dream of a climbing rose in zone 3?


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: G Keats
Zone: 5a
Date: 25-May-04 12:47 PM EST

I have not done anything with my John Cabot othe than prune off any dead branches. Last year it grew about 3 feet and bloom up until the last of October. It appears to be OK this year. Covered it well with snow last winter thats all. Where did you buy your rose. I got mine at Veseys in PEI


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Venus
Zone: 3a
Date: 25-May-04 01:51 PM EST

I did buy my roses at a reputable greenhouse in Edmonton. My cold zone I suspect has as much to do with my problem as anything.

I'm wondering if other cold climate gardeners prefer growing "showier" hardy varieties instead of climbers if the long canes won't survive the winter anyway?


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: dian davies
Zone: 3b
Date: 25-May-04 02:08 PM EST

I am an avid rose gardener who has had no luck with keeping a John Cabot rose over Winter. I would advise you to go with the Antique roses especially from rose breeders Like Pickerings, A rose I a have that is awesome with smooth stems is therese Bugnet which is pink and highly scented. It was bred by an Albertan too You can keep it as a shrub by pruning or let it grow as tall as seven foot which is the hight mine reaches I just cover the base with leaves in the late fall.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Carol
Zone: 5a
Date: 26-May-04 03:56 AM EST

Therese Bugnet is great! I have 2 growing beside an 8 ft lattice screen and they both reach the top. Minimal winter dieback and the stems are a beautiful red in winter. I have William Baffin climber growing beside it and it is very hardy as well. I'm trying to grow a John Davis, but for the last 2 years, the rabbits have chewed it down to the ground.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Venus
Zone: 3a
Date: 26-May-04 10:44 AM EST

Thank you for the information everyone! I guess I will try something new on my arbor. I am a ruthless gardener and if something doesn’t thrive, I dig it out! As per your recommendations, I am considering Therese Bugnet instead. I just spent a few hours researching this rose on the internet and all I can say is "WOW"! Everyone seems to love this rose.

I am a bit confused however as Lois Hole's Rose book says that it blooms on "old" wood and needs little pruning. I was under the impression that a rose needed to be pruned to increase bloom vigor. In the case of an “old wood” rose, do you usually not prune them ... just snip off the spent blooms? Any advice is appreciated.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Carol
Zone: 5a
Date: 27-May-04 03:28 AM EST

I only prune out dead wood in spring, and then snip off spent blooms (to bud above next 5 leaf configuration).


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: kathaleen
Zone: 3
Date: 01-Jun-04 08:54 PM EST

I planted a climbing rose last year to join a pre-existing rose, and the new rose grew around 4 feet. I did not cover the canes at all - and it has done well. It has already taken off this spring and is on it's way to joining the long ignored climbing rose that the original owners had planted . I can't imagine trying to bring the canes down under the snow cover -of which we had none prior to our first cold snap. I did place some straw around the roots of the new rose, but that was all. The original rose - type? name? -gets no attention at all other then pruning dead branches. I say stick with it.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Patricia (iris1@rogers.com)
Zone: 5
Date: 03-Jun-04 07:18 PM EST

We are 20 minutes outside Ottawa, with drying winds and intense cold in winter. These roses do well for us: Thérèse Bugnet; Blanc Double de Coubert (a double white, very fragrant); Agnes, a yellow rose bred at Ottawa's Experimental Farm; Henry Hudson, a pale pink bud that opens white; Stanwell Perpetual, another pink fading to white. We have just bought "Crocus" an apricot colour David Austin rose. We have installed it in a very sheltered south-facing spot with a brick wall behind it. Also, the trick is that this is the spot where the pipe exits our house going to the septic field. Believe it or not, we grow a banana plant here - it winters outdoors with a bale of hay over it.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: carol abbott
Zone: 5
Date: 25-Aug-04 12:34 AM EST

I planted an old fashioned climbing rose within 3-4 ft of a mock orange and now wonder if the roots from the mock orange will interfere. Also my canna has beautiful leaves but no flower!!


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Donna
Zone: 5b
Date: 26-Aug-04 12:24 PM EST

I have found this thread interesting as I too have just purchased a new home with lots of different kinds of roses, and everyone has a different point of view as to how to care and prune them. Cut them back in the fall, leave them until spring, then prune, etc. etc. Any info is appreciated. I too, have two gorgeous Canna Lilies that have grown to 5 feet high, but as Carol above mentioned, no blooms! How come?


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: ramblin' rose
Zone: 8a
Date: 26-Aug-04 11:39 PM EST

Well, this is definitely strange,.......Th. Bugnet blooms from summer through fall on the West Coast here. I deadhead and prune her during the blooming season..so she comes on new wood! RR


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: JoanneS (jstraayer@specialty.ab.ca)
Zone: 3a
Date: 07-Sep-04 09:45 AM EST

Venus, I'm not sure where you are gardening, but in Northern Alberta, most people I know had trouble with their roses this winter. For whatever reason, maybe the three year drought, who knows, even my old hardy standby rose, the Hansa, died back to the ground this spring. It did come back and only just this week finally bloomed. I have a neighbour who grows John Cabot under a canopy of elms and it does fine.

If you are gardening in northern Alberta, give your Cabot another winter. We all had trouble with roses this year so you are not alone. Protect it well and hope for the best.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: GailE.
Zone: 3a
Date: 08-Sep-04 10:01 PM EST

This is an interesting thread since I bought an Alchemyst rose this year and am somewhat concerned about how to overwinter it. (Fine time now to be concerned!) I have a John Davis and a John Cabot which grow up the house and an unheated garage. The JD shares a trellis with a ? Kelsey (White). I only prune dead wood in spring, and shape in fall. My Theresa Bugnet blooms on both new and old wood, and grows about 8 ft. tall. Last winter was tough and I lost several long canes, but generally speaking do nothing special. BUT...the Alchamyst sounds a little touchier...what do you think?

Also about the Canna's. I tried some this year for the first time...They seem better now, even with the cold, and suddenly I have 3 flower sets. Well I did have..not after tonight I guess. SNOW!


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: gwen
Zone:
Date: 22-Sep-04 05:51 PM EST

I bought a cabot rose 3 years ago and was so pleased with the way it wintered that I got 2 more this spring. I have never done anything special to winter it and the kids even trod over it occasionaly this past winter. It is still blooming and has many buds still to open! South Sask winters can be harsh so hopefully I will continue to have good luck.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: PatA
Zone: 3
Date: 23-Sep-04 06:49 PM EST

For GailE

Alchemyst is very touchy in our zone. I would advise mulching the bottom with 12" of something(leaves, peatmoss, bark mulch) and if you have any long canes lay them down and do the same. It only blooms on old wood so if you can't get any to over winter, it will survive but never give you a good show.

Venus Did your John Cabot ever bounce back? Many roses in Alberta died to the ground but bounced back after mid june. I'm a horticultuist and a few even fooled me. I had quite given up on my Hansa when low and behold there it came. It's still blooming now. Don't give up on John cabot or John Davis as climbers. They take a couple of years to settle in but then do well. Plant a clematis such as Bluebird, Prarie Traveller's Joy, Tangutica(yellow) or Rosy O'Grady as a companion to them. Those varieties seem to tolerate lower light levels.

Any one that wants a VIGOROUS climber for cold zones I recommend highly The Polar Star (Polstjarnan) This year no die back, hundreds of blooms and up to 6 feet of new growth. I have had it in for 4 years and am very impressed. It now spreads 16 feet wide on a 5 foot tall twig lattice fence. About 30 - 40 shoots from the ground. I actually had to beat it back this year, with all the rain central alberta had it was becoming a monster

Good luck all and here's to a warm fall!


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Donna
Zone: 3a
Date: 03-Oct-04 01:55 PM EST

Venus, I echo Pat's message - don't give up on your John Cabot. I live just outside of Edmonton and have one John Cabot that also seemed to have trouble growing this year after the last winter. It was slow to get going - I think the cold June weather set it back.

I previously had a John Cabot that did not survive a landscaping renovation but in our cold Alberta climate planted in a Northwest location (not very sunny) it still grew 9 feet tall and 9 feet wide. It had no winter protection but thrived for many years.

Every year is a new adventure! Good luck.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Alison
Zone: 5b
Date: 13-Feb-05 11:59 AM EST

I am soon moving to Quebec where I will be in a 5 zone. I never had much luck with roses but for some reason I am compelled to drool over the Vesey's 2005 Rose catalogue. I want to plant 2 Joseph's Coat bushes at my front door to train up 2 of the stone and masonry pillars supporting the porch roof. Has anyone ever had this one? Any tips for climbing roses in Quebec ( just north of Montreal)?


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Janine (jjschuel@telusplanet.net)
Zone: 2b
Date: 14-Feb-05 12:48 PM EST

Dear Pat A where would I find polar star rose? It sounds wonderful.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: ramblin'rose
Zone:
Date: 15-Feb-05 03:02 PM EST

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=4904..you can purchase this rose at Corn Hill Nursery.com in Canada..


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Janine (jjschuel@telusplanet.net)
Zone: 2b
Date: 17-Feb-05 07:29 PM EST

Thanks ramblin'rose, I love the site and will probably get distracted on it a lot.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: mary (bubbie7@sympatico.ca)
Zone: 5a
Date: 13-Mar-05 11:28 AM EST

SO NEW AT THIS,........ NEW HOUSE........ FACING SOUTH........ DESIRE A WALL OF YELLOE ROSES. NEED ADVICE. HARDY SOUNDS GOOD ! ANY SUGGESTIONS............ GREATLY APPRECIATED.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: mary (bubbie7@sympatico.ca)
Zone: 5a
Date: 13-Mar-05 11:28 AM EST

SO NEW AT THIS,........ NEW HOUSE........ FACING SOUTH........ DESIRE A WALL OF YELLOE ROSES. NEED ADVICE. HARDY SOUNDS GOOD ! ANY SUGGESTIONS............ GREATLY APPRECIATED.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Michael
Zone: 4
Date: 26-Jun-05 03:31 AM EST

I have a Imperial climbing rose which was the talk of the street until last year. The rose grew like mad but no flowers. It is doing the same thing this year growing beautifuly but not a bud to be found. All my other roses are doing great. Can anyone help!!


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Patricia (iris1@rogers.com)
Zone: 5
Date: 26-Jun-05 01:27 PM EST

For Mary (Bubbie 7) As you can probably read here, a certain rose may do well in one region or area, and poorly in another. For this reason, I suggest that you visit a "serious" nursery near you (not a Walmart or anything like that) Tell the staff what you want: a yellow rose that will produce lots of flowers and hopefully not just in June but re-blooming. The staff at a good nursery will help you choose the right rose for your area. They will show you how to plant it properly and how to protect it for the winter, if necessary. They will give you a guarantee (usually for one year) that the plant will thrive if looked after properly. Good luck!!


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Grace
Zone: 3
Date: 28-Jun-05 11:33 AM EST

Regarding the discussion about growing John Cabot. I have been sucessful in growing this rose and other climbers in our zone 3-4 climate for the last ten years. there are years when we lose quite a few canes due to odd winter conditions but these are few and far between. I never lay my roses down or do any special mulching for the winter. But I am very careful not to feed my roses any later than the end of June, in this way the plant seems ready for those early cold spells we sometimes get.

On the other hand I have a Henry Kelsey that does not seem to know he is suposed to grow more than 3 feet. He is on his own root. Has anyone else had this problem.

Grace


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Lyn
Zone: 3a
Date: 29-Jun-05 05:59 PM EST

Grace;

Is it possible you have a John Franklin rather than a Henry Kelsey? They are a similar looking flower.


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Chris
Zone: 5a
Date: 06-Jul-05 08:21 AM EST

Own root Explorers are slower to grow. I have a John Davis - only 3' high in its third year. I also had a grafted Henry Kelsey which never got muchmore than 5'


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Kristie
Zone: 9
Date: 19-Mar-08 07:51 PM EST

Hello all,

I read some of this tread but I have a question to ask. I recently bought a Red Climbing rose from a gentleman that he had recently cut WAY back. It was healthy and happy when I got it. I planted it in happy soil with lots of sun and air. I had to prune it WAY back further due to spacing in my garden. I do not have a lot of experience with roses, but he told me that I could do almost anything to it and it would be fine. It looks TERRIBLE! It is wilted, browed leaves sagging little branches etc. I have been watering it because it has been in the sun. I am hoping it will be alright. Any suggestions? I had bought another from him, that I didnt have to cut back and that one is very happy.. What to do?

Thanks so much for any help! Kristie


Subject: RE: Climbing Rose Frustration!
From: Kath (gardenofbubbles@yahoo.ca)
Zone: 3a
Date: 20-Mar-08 12:57 PM EST

Kristie, the roots may be just getting too much water, and it could also be that most roses do need a little time to "sleep" between blooms, so I would suggest giving him a little rest, and let him do his thing.. if you are worried about the sun scorching it, try covering it in the harsh afternoon sun with a laundry basket turned upside down... make sure he gets the morning sun though, or he may get a little sad :) also check to make sure that the branches aren't diseased and that there aren't any bugs living inside. And as an afterthought - just to be sure ~ I would check to make sure that your rose is meant for your zone... :)


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