General Discussion:

Valiant grapes


Messages posted to thread:

From:Date:Zone:
Jim Toth24-Aug-00 03:46 PM EST   
Greg25-Aug-00 11:37 PM EST   
Craig23-Oct-00 02:43 PM EST   
Linda23-Oct-00 11:24 PM EST   
Donna24-Oct-00 09:43 AM EST   
Craig24-Oct-00 03:26 PM EST   
Greg24-Oct-00 09:44 PM EST   
Linda25-Oct-00 12:21 AM EST   
Craig25-Oct-00 02:23 PM EST   
Greg Boguski25-Oct-00 08:00 PM EST   
Craig26-Oct-00 05:45 PM EST   
Greg26-Oct-00 09:08 PM EST   
Brian @ Prairie & Parkland Plants04-Nov-00 12:07 AM EST   
Linda04-Nov-00 12:14 AM EST   
Craig06-Nov-00 01:23 PM EST   
Craig10-Nov-00 03:14 PM EST   
Connie12-Dec-00 02:36 PM EST   
Brian @ Prairie 7 Parkland Plants12-Dec-00 07:05 PM EST   
Craig13-Dec-00 07:01 PM EST   
Craig13-Dec-00 07:09 PM EST   
Craig13-Dec-00 07:18 PM EST   
Connie13-Dec-00 11:44 PM EST   
14-Dec-00 10:06 AM EST   
Connie14-Dec-00 03:01 PM EST   
Greg15-Dec-00 12:13 PM EST   
Craig15-Dec-00 03:07 PM EST   
Craig15-Dec-00 03:11 PM EST   
Millie15-Dec-00 04:50 PM EST   
greg15-Dec-00 05:07 PM EST   
Connie16-Dec-00 01:02 AM EST   
Linda19-Dec-00 12:55 AM EST   
Craig21-Dec-00 09:44 AM EST   
Linda21-Dec-00 11:56 PM EST   
Craig22-Dec-00 02:34 PM EST   
Jim Toth26-Mar-01 06:00 PM EST   
Jim Toth26-Mar-01 06:01 PM EST   
Edward31-Mar-09 10:22 AM EST 5a   
Ellen15-Oct-16 11:07 PM EST 3b   
Ellen15-Oct-16 11:08 PM EST 3b   
Ellen15-Oct-16 11:09 PM EST 3b   
Ellen15-Oct-16 11:20 PM EST 3b   


Subject: Valiant grapes
From: Jim Toth
Zone:
Date: 24-Aug-00 03:46 PM EST

In my yard I grow two Valiant grape vines, one up againts my greenhouse and the other arounf my flag pole. They are five years old, and last year produced 23 lbs of fruit. That fruit has been fermenting into a beautiful red wine. In making the wine, I added a little too much sugar so I will likley be enjoying a sweet port like wine. My question is this, has anybody had success making a no.1 or dry red wine from valiant grapes? Also is there a secret to pruning these vines to increase production? Thanks. Jim


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Greg
Zone:
Date: 25-Aug-00 11:37 PM EST

Jim! I've been growing a valiant grape(Zone 2A) for 10 yrs. It produces between 25 to 30 lbs of grapes each season even after crop thinning. The wine I've tried making was from a recipe for Ontario blue grapes & also came out a bit sweet but I have heard from members of the Minnesota Grape Growers Association that an accepatble red wine can be accomplished. You might try their web site mgga.com(might be .org)for some help.

Good luck! Greg


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 23-Oct-00 02:43 PM EST

Jim and Greg,

I've finally found someone else who grows valiant grapes!After a few years of experimenting with different varieties, I've found they are the best for a Calgary climate. I am aware of a winery in PEI that makes a commercial wine out of valiant grapes. Do either of you know where I can find a good book to show me how to trim them correctly? After my third year, I'm only getting a "margarine container" per plant, not 23 lbs!


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Linda
Zone:
Date: 23-Oct-00 11:24 PM EST

I grow Beta grapes as well as valiant but mine rarely ripen before the frost comes. Any suggestions? They are on the south side of the garage. How do you overwinter yours?


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Donna
Zone:
Date: 24-Oct-00 09:43 AM EST

Don't forget to also check out all the articles we have on grapes on the site...just type in grapes in the Search Bar...Gary Strachan has some great articles here...


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 24-Oct-00 03:26 PM EST

I live in Calgary, on the south side of the house, there is no problem ripening the valiants. The danger in the winter in Calgary is drying out from one day at plus 20 degrees and the next -20 degrees. For the past few winters, I have piled up dirt around the trunk up to about a foot and a half, then mulched as much of the rest I can with leaves. (inside burlap or chicken wire semi-circle) This year I am going to try and wrap the main trunk and the cordon (main horizontal branches with thick newspaper) again to keep them from drying and cracking. The extreme cold isn't a problem, it's the change in temperature. I've read Gary's articles, but it's tough to understand the exact pruning without diagrams.


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Greg
Zone:
Date: 24-Oct-00 09:44 PM EST

If anyone is interested in more information on Grapes a really good site to look at is the Minnesota Grapes Growers Association. The web address is MNgrapes.com I've been a member for a few years & they have good resources that you can borrow. Ie a book & video tape lending library. If anyone else is growing grapes on the prairies let me know how it's going. Currently I have Valiant, Kay Gray, Eona, Michurnitez, Severnji, a cross of Valiant X Severnji, Minn 78, & Bluebell. The first 4 vines are the oldest & Valiant by far produces the best & most consistent. As for pruning, grapes will be produced next season on wood that formed this summer(much like rasberries). Heavy pruning in the spring is recommeded & the vines will "bleed" from the cuts. I remove between 1/2 -2/3 of the wood produced last year each spring. Looks dreadful when I'm done but yields great. I also summer prune to keep the vines in check. As my valiant overproduces I cluster thin to 1 or 2 clusters be node. Hope this is helpful. Cheers


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Linda
Zone:
Date: 25-Oct-00 12:21 AM EST

Are you pruning the grapes as they do professionally. With one main stem then 2 horizontal branches, 8 in. later than 2 more horizontal branches?

I take mine down every fall and cover them with great quantities of leaves. The plants have survived 8 years.


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 25-Oct-00 02:23 PM EST

Greg,

I have read that grapes only grow on 2nd year wood, but when I see real vines in the Okanagan or Europe, they seem to trim them right down to a "T" shape (all old wood). I don't see 4 to 8 inch stubs left over coming out of the "T". Do you leave 4 - 8 inch stubs with a few buds each when you trim? Or do you leave 1 or two foot or longer branches coming off a main stump?

Linda,

What do you mean "take down"?

Finally,

I have tried the following two varieties in Calgary without success:

Interlaken Stuben


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Greg Boguski
Zone:
Date: 25-Oct-00 08:00 PM EST

Linda: I've trained my grapes in a fan system(multiple trunks starting near the ground level). I leave replacement spurs near the bottom for next years canes if the vine freezes.(Hasn't happened in 12 yrs). I do not take my vine down each year & I don't wrap the trunks. My Valiant even survived the winter that killed my Norland & Fall Red apple trees about 5 yrs. ago. Just to let you know I live in Brandon, Man. which is suppose to be Zone 2a but in the city I think Zone 3 is probably what the grapes experience,

Craig: As to cane pruning or spur pruning. Grapes that have Vinifera breeding often are spur pruned. Varieties with riparia & labrusca appear to do better if cane pruned. Hope this helps.

Just another note: A canadian source of hardier vines can be found at hardygrapes.tottenham.on.ca


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 26-Oct-00 05:45 PM EST

Greg,

I hate to beat the pruning issue like a rented mule but:

Is the "spur" pruning leaving several smaller stubs along the old wood?

And is the "cane" pruning leaving a smaller number of longer vines?

Finally, should I assume that the valiant, since it is so hardy, has a riparia lineage?

I think I know what you mean by a fan. I think I was creating a fan quite by accident, as the valiant's kind of turn into a bush if you don't get on them early.

Finally, thank you for your other web references. I will probably look to the Minnisota assoc. to get a book or video on pruning.


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Greg
Zone:
Date: 26-Oct-00 09:08 PM EST

Craig:

Spur pruning is what you see in Vineyards in Europe, old wood with very short stub of this past summers growth. Cane pruning is basically taking the wood produced this summer & leaving it long as a cane. Often it is cut back after a particular # of nodes. Depending on the variety you might leave 6-10 nodes per cane.

Yes Valiant is a cross of riparia(Wild riverbank grape) & fredonia( a labrusca grape similiar to concord). Cane pruning works very well with this grape as it is very vigorous. It also has a tendency to overproduce as the vine matures. So cluster pruning(removing) some of the small set "green" grapes is recommended.

Hope this helps!

Greg


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Brian @ Prairie & Parkland Plants
Zone:
Date: 04-Nov-00 12:07 AM EST

Re Valiant Grapes. It appears from the discussion that they are suitable for Zone 3. Where in Alberta can one purchase some rootstock ?


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Linda
Zone:
Date: 04-Nov-00 12:14 AM EST

D'na Gardens at Elnora propagates them by tissue culture.

My original plants came from Boughen Nurseries in Manitoba.

if the vines are left on the ground they will root and produce another plant.

Most of the big garden centers will have a few plants in in the spring.


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 06-Nov-00 01:23 PM EST

I bought my plants at Golden Acre Garden Sentres. However I might add that when I bought them I was discouraged and mocked by the employees who I talked to.

Zone 3 yes, but best on the south side of house or fence with protection from north wind.


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 10-Nov-00 03:14 PM EST

I found a very detailed description of many of the vines offered for sale by hardygrapes on another website:

www.hevanet.com/lonrom

Anyone looking to plant some new vines, or get information on existing ones would find it helpful. Information is given for each grape variety in the following categories:

Type: vinifera, hybrid, American

Seedless?

Color:

Use: Table, Wine, jelly, edible leaves

Season: early, middle, late


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Connie
Zone:
Date: 12-Dec-00 02:36 PM EST

I have Beta grapes which are 7 years old and was told they are self-pollinating. I also have Valiant but they are just 2 years old. My husband said he saw a TV show in which a man, who lived near Edmonton, was successfully growing grapes. He doesn't remember which channel or which show but I am searching when time permits. Yours truly, Connie


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Brian @ Prairie 7 Parkland Plants
Zone:
Date: 12-Dec-00 07:05 PM EST

I have a Caragana hedge that runs E>W. Would the Valiant Grapes do well planted on the S. side of it? If OK, when would be the earliest time in the spring that the Grapes could be planted? Would a person have to cover them until the danger of frost is past?


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 13-Dec-00 07:01 PM EST

Connie,

I have heard that grapes are more fruitful if more than one type are planted. Some types require polination and some don't. I'm confused by your comment about "fragrant blossoms" as my valiants don't have blossoms at all. If you go to the following site, I know that Bert at Hardy Grapes can certainly help you. hardygrapes.tottenham.on.ca


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 13-Dec-00 07:09 PM EST

Brian,

I don't know what a caragana hedge is but I don't see a problem as long as the grapes get the sun. You might want to dig a deep hole when you plant the grape so that it's roots get a good start and don't have to compete in the first year. The material I've read said not to put the grapes outside if they were started inside, until danger of frost is past (like tomatos) As a additional note, if we have good weather in May and the grapes have buds that have turned green, I try and cover if there is a danger of frost. If these green buds are killed by frost it can set the whole plant back a few weeks.


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 13-Dec-00 07:18 PM EST

Linda,

Regarding your October 25th message, how do you "take your vines down?" If I tried to bend my vines, I'm sure the trunk would break, like a small tree. Are they really that flexible?


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Connie
Zone:
Date: 13-Dec-00 11:44 PM EST

I am sorry if I confused you with the term fragrant blossoms. I must make 2 corrections. First of all, the term fragrant blossoms refers to my Beta grapes, not the Valiant grapes as the Valiant are only 2 years old. Second, rather than fragrant blossoms, I should have said miniature clusters of grapes. What they appear to be are tiny grapes, about the size of a pin head each, which are close together and resemble clusters of grapes. Are they, perhaps, actual grapes not blossoms? If so, how can I get them to grow into regular sized grapes? They are very tiny, smell lovely, are green in color, and then simply shrivel up. I wonder if the soil I'm using is correct to produce normal sized grapes? Any suggestions you can give me would be very much appreciated! Connie


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From:
Zone:
Date: 14-Dec-00 10:06 AM EST

Connie,

Yes, I get the "miniature clusters of grapes". I have found on my valiants that some of the "miniature grapes" in the bunch kind of "fizzle out" and do not turn into real grapes, or entire clusters of these miniature grapes fizzle out and do not mature. I had this problem for two years on a Stuben variety and so I will be yanking it up this spring in favor of a St. Croix.


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Connie
Zone:
Date: 14-Dec-00 03:01 PM EST

So, would removing most of these miniature clusters of grapes allow the few that are left develop into normal sized grapes? Thanks! Connie


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Greg
Zone:
Date: 15-Dec-00 12:13 PM EST

Just a couple of notes> Both Valiant & Beta grapes are perfect flowered meaning that they have both male & female flowers & don't need a 2nd grape to pollinate them. The small clusters you see are the female flowers- after a week or so between these "smalll grapes" you will see very small "flowers" These have the pollen. If the weather is good a bit of wind, warm & some bees you should get the grapes set fruit. These slowly grow up into your grape clusers.. Veration(turning purple) should start about the middle of Aug. depending on how warm the summer is. Taste your fruit b4 pciking because they turn purple way before the sweeten up. If your visne is young the removing some clutsers early in the season will allow the grapes to size up a bit & sweeten up but size of grapes is dependant upon the variaty planted. hope this helps


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 15-Dec-00 03:07 PM EST

Greg,

These "small flowers" that you talk about, do the "petals" look more like little hairs than what a person would normally think of petals of a flower?


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 15-Dec-00 03:11 PM EST

Greg,

Regarding your August 25th message, what volume of juice/wine does 20 - 30 pounds valinat grapes produce. My valiant grapes seem to be all seed and skin and little pulp and juice.


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Millie
Zone:
Date: 15-Dec-00 04:50 PM EST

Hello. I live in zone 6a. Don't know much about grapes (love to eat them) but would like to purchase two vines in the spring for eating purpose. In the White Rose catalogue they have Concord and Niagara grapes. Has anyone had any problems with those or which one would you suggest for a beginner. Thanks so much. Millie


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: greg
Zone:
Date: 15-Dec-00 05:07 PM EST

Craig

Yep! you are correct- The "flowers" look more like little hairs then flowers. As to the 2nd question - I get about 1.5 gallons of juice. I've been fortunate to have access to a stemmer/crusher & a grape press, so I think this helps.

Best in the Holiday Season

greg


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Connie
Zone:
Date: 16-Dec-00 01:02 AM EST

Thanks, Greg! I will try to apply all that I've learned from this brand new horticulture experience. A discussion like this is much better than just reading a book as you get the viewpoints of people who have actually grown or are thinking of growing grapes. Ever think of visiting the Napa Valley? Connie


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Linda
Zone:
Date: 19-Dec-00 12:55 AM EST

Craig,

I take the grapes of the trellis every fall and lay them on the ground them pile 2 or 3 tarp loads of leaves on top of them. Mine bend at the base. the vines are fairly flexable. they are sot after to make wreaths.


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 21-Dec-00 09:44 AM EST

Linda,

What shape is the trunk of your vine? Is it straight up like a small tree for about a foot or two, then branching out? Or does it start branching out very near to the ground so that it is the narrower and younger vines that you bend over onto the ground?


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Linda
Zone:
Date: 21-Dec-00 11:56 PM EST

Craig,

I have not pruned my grapes at all but will start next year. (I was happy just to see them grow and produce) Ther are a number of vines from the roots. Even after 8-9 years they are very small; less then an 1/2 inch in diameter. If left on the ground they root and form new plants.


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Craig
Zone:
Date: 22-Dec-00 02:34 PM EST

Linda,

I've pruned most of mine to form just one trunk from the bottom up to more than a foot, so my trunks are closer to an inch in diameter. I'm not going to try and bend them now, but next fall, after the leaves have fallen, but befor they are frozen and dried up, I'll see if they'll bend. Thanks!


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Jim Toth
Zone:
Date: 26-Mar-01 06:00 PM EST

I live in Regina - Zone 2, and have been growing Valiant Grapes successfully for 6 years. I have two vines, one growing against my greenhouse and the second growing 15 feet away around my flag pole. Both have survived Regina winters with no extra protection. After I harvest my crop - around 25 lbs, I simpoly leave them alone until spring. In spring, I remove any dead wood, and pray. I have never really pruned either of my vines as I really do not know how. I would be interested in receiving more info on pruning. The vine growing against my greenhouse is over 10 ft high and spreads about 8 ft across. The vine grwoing around the flag pole is 8ft high and I contain it around the pole. I have a trellis -15ft across joing the flag pole and my greenhouse. It is 2 ft high and stretches 8 ft above ground between the two elements - like the top of a picture frame. Last year I started training my vines to grow across the trellis and suspect this year they will grow into each other. Then my grapes will hang down over one of my flower beds. Hope it works well. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Jim in Regina


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Jim Toth
Zone:
Date: 26-Mar-01 06:01 PM EST

I live in Regina - Zone 2, and have been growing Valiant Grapes successfully for 6 years. I have two vines, one growing against my greenhouse and the second growing 15 feet away around my flag pole. Both have survived Regina winters with no extra protection. After I harvest my crop - around 25 lbs, I simpoly leave them alone until spring. In spring, I remove any dead wood, and pray. I have never really pruned either of my vines as I really do not know how. I would be interested in receiving more info on pruning. The vine growing against my greenhouse is over 10 ft high and spreads about 8 ft across. The vine grwoing around the flag pole is 8ft high and I contain it around the pole. I have a trellis -15ft across joing the flag pole and my greenhouse. It is 2 ft high and stretches 8 ft above ground between the two elements - like the top of a picture frame. Last year I started training my vines to grow across the trellis and suspect this year they will grow into each other. Then my grapes will hang down over one of my flower beds. Hope it works well. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Jim in Regina


Subject: RE: Valiant grapes
From: Edward
Zone: 5a
Date: 31-Mar-09 10:22 AM EST

Hi, Everyone,

I would like to start growing Valiant Grapes in my backyard (Zone 5a), and I would like it to cover my 10 feet gazebo once matured.

May someone kindly tell me how may plants I should have for this purpose, where I can get them and anything that I need to pay attention in the beginning?

Many thanks for your help.

Best Regards, Edward


Subject: Valiant grape wine
From: Ellen
Zone: 3b
Date: 15-Oct-16 11:07 PM EST

I have been growing my Valiant grapes for 8 years now on the south side of my house. I put some chicken wire on the corner of the house and have the grapes growing up the drain pipe. I do not baby them by wrapping them or laying them on the ground and they are doing just fine. Last year was the first time that I made wine from my grapes and I got 9 bottles of wine. It was sweet and a beautiful Rosè colour. I would really like to find a good wine recipe from Valiant grapes. Anyone out there with some simple recipes for me?


Subject: Valiant grape wine
From: Ellen
Zone: 3b
Date: 15-Oct-16 11:08 PM EST

I have been growing my Valiant grapes for 8 years now on the south side of my house. I put some chicken wire on the corner of the house and have the grapes growing up the drain pipe. I do not baby them by wrapping them or laying them on the ground and they are doing just fine. Last year was the first time that I made wine from my grapes and I got 9 bottles of wine. It was sweet and a beautiful Rosè colour. I would really like to find a good wine recipe from Valiant grapes. Anyone out there with some simple recipes for me?


Subject: Valiant grape wine
From: Ellen
Zone: 3b
Date: 15-Oct-16 11:09 PM EST

I have been growing my Valiant grapes for 8 years now on the south side of my house. I put some chicken wire on the corner of the house and have the grapes growing up the drain pipe. I do not baby them by wrapping them or laying them on the ground and they are doing just fine. Last year was the first time that I made wine from my grapes and I got 9 bottles of wine. It was sweet and a beautiful Rosè colour. I would really like to find a good wine recipe from Valiant grapes. Anyone out there with some simple recipes for me?


Subject: Valiant grape wine
From: Ellen
Zone: 3b
Date: 15-Oct-16 11:20 PM EST

I have been growing my Valiant grapes for 8 years now on the south side of my house. I put some chicken wire on the corner of the house and have the grapes growing up the drain pipe. I do not baby them by wrapping them or laying them on the ground and they are doing just fine. Last year was the first time that I made wine from my grapes and I got 9 bottles of wine. It was sweet and a beautiful Rosè colour. I would really like to find a good wine recipe from Valiant grapes. Anyone out there with some simple recipes for me?


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